0.320 Deduct 0.006 from butt, 0.004 from tip. All 5wt with identical terminal tip and butt dimensions. As a rule I only make #5 rods (like Marinaro) and the bulk of these are less than 7'6". In fact, as the requirements of a stream rod are very simple, this is what we do. So a 13 size ferrule has a female and male sleeve that is .203 and a male insert that is .1718 or 11/64's. 0.369 Can someone explain what this means and what number should I use. the mid is 42' and the closest measurements are 40" and 45" SO 2/5THS THE DIFFERENCE WILL BE BETWEEN 40 AND 42 AND 3/5THS THE DIFFERENCE WILL BE BETWEEN 42 AND 45th. 15 0.1115 The stepdown in the male is from a 14/64 ID where the ferrule initially goes over the bamboo and steps down to 12/64 ID for the bamboo inside of the male slide. The mid sections are very different. To all of them and their contemporaries we are grateful . It is my belief that there are only seven truly different tapers available as a base to design rods from. They will not be using straight tapers, I'm afraid. What does the taper of a rod that roll cast well look like? They would be, Heavy butt section, Light butt section, heavy tip, light tip, Parabolic (heavy in the middle) and the hinge (light in the middle). This is because the laws of physics don't tend to change much. 70 0.271 15 .128 .278 The stepped down portion of the male is 2/64's smaller than the sleeve. (Mark Wendt), I am wanting to build a Dickerson 7012 but cant find a taper that accounts for the step downs. I'm not familiar with Tom Fulk's true arc taper. (Will Price), You can adapt the taper that calls for a step down by putting a slight swell at the male ferrule end of the taper so that a super Z or super Swiss ferrule will work properly. Just looking for a taper that accommodates the step down ferrule nicely. Some rods, I think, have a regional quality to them, too, and just holding them gives one a kind of flavor of a particular time and place. So this spring I made the Dickerson 8014 Guide taper and prefer it for Lake Bass and larger bluegill. In fact, I use the 7613 that I made a lot of the time, even while Hex fishing last week on the Manistee! 0.266 A rod from John is the next best thing to the real thing. If you're willing to accept our assumptions about varnish thickness and how to interpolate between measurements, then the table on the last page is the one to use. But if you really like Dickerson tapers (i sure do) then getting a good maker to whip up his version of that taper while using his personal cosmetics would be my first choice. .350@40 I have one of his 7625's, and it's a great rod, being a 7613 replica. Lyle Dickerson (1892-1981) has long been known as a pioneer in rodbuilding, due partly to his use of machinery in production but primarily appreciated by fishermen for many of his fast and accurate taper designs. This is merely about applying engineering principles to designing a rod for a particular application. Quite a disparity. And this set of conditions is very narrow. (Greg Holland), Who knows, he may have just been responding to a client request, presume he had to eat. 55 0.217 145405 I like Paynes too! I'm off to the antipodes next year, and I'm hoping that the 7'6'' #5 that should be a #4 will go with me. This means that the finished rod will cast like a ONE PIECE SLT rod. Lyle Dickerson tapered copies Lyle Dickerson (1892-1981) has long been known as a pioneer in rodbuilding, due partly to his use of machinery in production but primarily appreciated by fishermen for many of his fast and accurate taper designs. 5 0.088 112541 by canerodscom 05/09/09 02:32, Post I have a tough time roll casting over about 65' with any rod, no matter how long or limber. As a general rule, a 12/64 gives you a four weight, a 13/64 a five, 14 or 15 a six. The long column to the right of that is what we think the raw cane would have measured, subtracting for varnish, and interpolating between our measurements so as to put everything back on 5-inch stations. They did not understand that a slow taper pole will bend near the point of grip under stress, whereas a fast taper will bend increasingly towards the tip as the rate of taper increases. Harry Boyd ----------- Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com maker@canerods.com Aransas.clarks Guide Posts: 301 Start out by choosing your fly rod, and follow it up with a visit to our collection of fly reels. The Dickersons that I've seen were similar. I could probably improve just by buying a new cheap file.. (Frank Stetzer, Hexrod, Taper Archive, Rodmakers Archive), I'm grateful to you for that point because a recent post referred to straight taper Garrisons and I wonder if he meant straight stress "curves". These were Bailey Woods stepdown ferrules. Bogart Classic Wet Fly Rod 8.5 ft 5 wt Tip 5/64 For a DT #4 Here is a good classic wet fly taper that a real conisour of fly fishing would enjoy. If it's starting at the cork, somebody got their dimensions messed up. a 3 1/2 wt - were that possible. An awful lot of fudging, especially as he could have made up tip rings quite easily. Lyle Dickerson (1892-1981) has long been known as a pioneer in rodbuilding, due partly to his use of machinery in production but primarily appreciated by fishermen for many of his fast and accurate taper designs. The difference is for a step-down ferrule. Because Ritz was not an engineer, any more than Creusevaut or Plantet were (although the latter may have been a competent mechanic) it was thought that the extension pole should be just that, a large diameter pole of slow taper. Hi Guys, Also, some of those Heddons would have had pins through the tab area causing, in my view, problems. Here's a classic Winston from the Hexrod taper archive. But all you have done is show the straight line taper for between two dimensions. (Steve Weiss), That's the rub isn't it? Another maker who knows Dickerson tapers very well is Rick Cunningham. I am sure that the step-downs are important in copying the taper design exactly. (Mark Wendt). (David Atchison), Didn't Dickerson make his own ferrules and weren't they slightly oversized? They look very representative to what I have seen. These are our limited edition models, only released every few years. The only limit you have in this process, you can't change the tip diameter because you would be changing the line weight of the rod. by avyoung 06/12/16 21:25, Post If you like I can send you a compensated SLT and you will see what I mean. I just fished them both side by side on the Green River. Very smooth and plenty of power for a 5 wt should you need it. It's a 7 wt too but being a little shorter is easier on the arm and shoulder due to the shorter lever arm length. I hope this helps you out some, they are actually all nice rods, but as I said there is a little different in line sizes. Mr. Garrison did indeed design excellent rod tapers, but his tapers as well as all tapers ONLY HAVE A STRAIGHT HORIZONTAL STRESS CURVE under a very specific set of line conditions, outside of these conditions the SC is no longer Horizontal or straight but just another Curve. Just basic principles that have been around for years. So it seems that we are actually in complete agreement. Nice taper but you may feel the large flex area on long casts with a 8 WF line. (Bob Norwood), The point, whether you like it or not, is that you cannot design a rod that much exceeds mediocrity by using straight tapers. It's a two piece, 8 foot five weight. You may think you are being rude about "Classic" production methods, but they're probably better than mine. This board is for discussing the collecting of bamboo fly rods, both classic and modern. by alpom 05/08/09 03:35, Post I'm satisfied with my bamboo fly rod, even though the female metal Ferrule opening was a little big and the male ferrule on the second section would slip out after a few cast. The tips look essentially the same. 5 .096 .244 (Will Price). Besides, he's a fun guy to chat with about almost anything to do with fly fishing and the outdoors. The rod action will not resemble a straight line taper any longer. Click Here for Rod Raffle, Great Brown, Rainbow and Cutthroat Fly Fishing. They turn into 5 wts at about 60 feet, up till there, they are are 6 wts. Overhanging trees? (Mark Shamburg). 42 .194 .066 (Max Satoh), Yep, the drop at the ferrule is .014 which should call for the use of a step down. It made a fine rod, but you have to smooth out the taper leading into and out of the 45 and 50" stations as the rod was designed for a step down ferrule. A lot goes into crafting a bamboo fly rod and here you can learn more about our approach. At Headwaters Bamboo Rod Company we build our rods based on proven "historical" tapers, meaning that the tapers we use were designed by Twentieth Century bamboo fly rod craftsmen. I've had good success designing new tapers starting with the ferrule size, not tip top size. For each size ferrule there is a specific range of dimensions that will fit inside each size. I will let Bob speak to the numbers and how they were derived. . Except that they are US rated and thus #5's! Pickard makes nice rods for sure. I sold one to a co-worker who is a streamer guy and he fishes it with a full sinking 5 wt line and is happy with it. Its just simply to do with maximum stiffness (IE minimum deflection) for a given material weight. (Bob Norwood), That is kind of what I was thinking but if the rod is 7'6", that is 90". 65 0.2565 Can do a little better some days, but not always. The rod is currently 7'-2" after a test fit so I want to trim to the correct 7-0 length. The '51 is a bit softer. For example a 13 was really a 13.5? This should cause some debate as a lot of our American cousins rave about this wimpy stick? he then concludes with a diabolical smile. I'm just curious if you have a procedure to do this compensation on the taper itself or if you do this by stress calculation methods? The butt dimension at the ferrule is too large to fit in a 13/64. Made by Top Ten Tapers in Twinsburg, Ohio. This rod has some meat in the butt section and seems to mend a fair bit of line with ease. by avyoung 06/12/16 21:15, Post I made the Dickerson 7613 from the numbers in Jack Howells book. But if you decide to tell the world that this is therefore the right way to design a fishing rod then I'm going to disagree with you!" "Proper amounts" and "correct points" are hardly scientifically precise terms, so I regret that I don't know what you might mean. I am sure there are situations where a bit more length would be helpful, but who am I to argue with Mr. Dickerson? . .278@25 Tell me about it please. Reversed half wells cork grip. They are very nice 5 weights ( IMHO it is THE 8 5 wt). I am assuming this is an unvarnished rod. The following taper was taken from a varnished 8013. I finally made one for my wife and cut one into 4 pieces for me. (Jerry Foster). As Stephen points out if you can cast the rods then graph them out you really start to understand how it all comes together. A longer rod would help with the line control, but the drifts tend to be fairly short to rising fish. .212 is way too big for a 13/64, it's well into the 14/64 fit range. 0.168 0 0.072 - In the upper left corner, in blue, you'll see the real measurements we took, for all 3 flats at each measurement point. The ordeal with the broken rod changed my whole way of looking at ferrule sizes. Its definitely a bigger water rod that the 7613. (Robin Haywood), I consider a 7 1/2-ft. 5wt. Dickersons original taper was as Mark stated and a true 5 wt. My 2 cents. The swell starts at the 80" mark which will be under the cork assuming I have a grip and an insert roughly 10" in length. Latterly, they considered that a fiberglass butt section would solve all their troubles. They were severely inhibited by several difficulties. If you want a starting point then make the rate of taper 20 thousandths per inch and hollow build to 50 or 60% of original wall thickness. 0.102 There are two Perfectionists on Hexrod. Dickerson 801611-D - 8ft 3pc 7wt Posted by Jeremy Gray, Aug 30, 2000. Actually, your second post said what I was going to say, look at the graphs. 25 0.1405 0.160 Dickerson rods have the charm of being different (and scarce). (Greg Reeves), This version appears to me to take a step into account. Inevitably, if part of the strain is caused by rings ferrules and varnish, as it must be, then its resultant effect will detract from the weight of line that rod will cast. The last page shows our interpolated numbers, on 5 inch stations, with varnish already subtracted, using both the Howell method (measure stations from the butt up) or the "classic" method (measure stations from the tip down.) According to Hoagy Carmichael Jr. who filmed a documentary for Boston Public TV, the Payne Rod Co. made approximately 12,000 rods during it's existence. I've built this one which was posted to the rodmaker's listserv years ago. (Chris Obuchowski), Hexrods library seems to suggest otherwise. Information About Makers and Manufacturers, Appraisals & Identification of Bamboo Fly Rods. It was a rod I hate. (Mark Wendt), Dickerson (like all of us who draw their own tubing) used 1/64 wall tubing to construct his ferrules. 15 0.115 163502 Regarding Chris Bogart's Dickerson. (Chris Obuchowski). (Will Price), I have noticed several folks mention the Dickerson 8014. (Robin Haywood). I have made about 6 for auctions and as favors and all have been very well received and enjoyed. Very similar to the 8013 action ( my favorite rod ) but in the 4w class, mission accomplished. Listed as 7 wt but that seems kinda heavy? I can always build another and I'm sure I will. 0.153 The Dickerson 7612 taper a smooth medium action 4 wt that is 7 1/2 long in a 2pc. (Harry Boyd), In Dickerson-speak, does a 7613 have a 14 on the butt to 13 on the tip or a 13 on the butt to 12 on the tip stepdown? 0.369 (Al Baldauski). 35 0.162 166451 If you know something different about Dickerson's typical varnsh coat, make the appropriate adjustment. Please allow up to 120 days for completion of your new rod. Take a virtual tour of our terminal and view our campus map. This rod belonged to rodbuilder Tim Bedford. I have had my rod alongside an original and except for mine being new they were identical. This is the equivalent of a Powell B-8.70, a bit slower than the Powell B-9. The second you deviate from a straight line, no matter how you want to describe it, the fact that there was a straight line is irrelevant. 20 .140 .298 by jim royston 05/26/17 08:58, Return to Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods., Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. For those of you that have built this rod, does it flex into the beginning of the handle? That's not how they're made, see my previous post, or get a set of old time Leonard, Payne, Dickerson or anyone else's, other than cheep H-I or Montague's which had a necked down female, and measure them, the bamboo opening on both kinds of ferrules is the same on the male as it is on the female. (Steve Weiss). Dickerson Rods. 0.275 by avyoung 06/16/16 18:33, Post Thursday - Saturday, 10am to 4pm. He has two Dickerson 7613 tapers, from 1952 and 1970, that show dimensions for a butt ferrule that would be 14/64 and a tip ferrule of 13/64. 45 0.1985 I only use short rods on overgrown streams. the all-around trout rod out here in the Western US. Consider one or the other of these two if your rod maker intends to fit the rod with step down ferrules, since there is a .010" step down across the ferrule stations. Some rods might in fact be best with a line weight that falls between two designated ones eg. It seems several people have made rods for a given ferrule size (Dickerson #) with a size larger Super-Z. We're committed to providing a safe, comfortable environment for our travelers. Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods. Tapers are very personal things. I always encourage customers to try before they buy. I like 8013's. These get assimilated quite directly into stress curve approach. But nobody has a right to ask me to share it. You have a rod with a taper of approximately 0.0028 per inch. the 3pc tapers were appropriated from other makers so it does not always hold true in that case. in practice however, there is little point in going below 7'6'', really. Springcreek, the 8013 you have listed. Is there a classic taper that roll casts better any others? That has compensation for the ferrule and the Varnish & Guides. I have been working with Bob Norwood's taper program, using it to derive a basic set of reference tapers. The Lovely Reed by Jack Howell has numbers for the 1949 and 1951 versions. 48 .224 .375, I don't know how Banjo arrived at the measurements under the grip and reel seat. If you want to make overweight rods with unnecessarily heavy tips and relatively floppy butts then straight tapers will deliver. If you add bamboo the the tip of the rod, you have changed its mass (MOI/MOE) relative to what it was. (Will McMurrey). "And look at the difference in the prices they go for!" by JohnI 05/09/09 04:06, Post It's been my experience that a straight taper can be a very nice rod when designed correctly; for example a 4wt with a tip of 0.068 and a station rise of 0.013. Granger. 0.153 The guy turns out to be a top casting instructor. More than an eight weight is required to handle the largest of flies. Our campus map except for mine being new they were derived 8ft 3pc 7wt Posted by Jeremy Gray Aug... That is.203 and a male insert that is.1718 or 11/64 's 0.2565 can do a little better days. What we do Mark Wendt ), that 's the rub is it. Spring I made the Dickerson 7612 taper a smooth medium action 4 wt that is 7 1/2 in. As the requirements of a Powell B-8.70, a 12/64 gives you a four weight, a 13/64 comes! Out if you can learn more about our approach, he may have just responding... Quite easily ( Robin Haywood ), Hexrods library seems to suggest otherwise a varnished.! Especially as he could have made up tip rings dickerson fly rod tapers easily, mission accomplished our terminal view..., who knows, he may have just been responding to a client request presume! Two PIECE, 8 foot five weight I consider a 7 1/2-ft. 5wt longer rod would help with the control. Design rods from best thing to the 8013 action ( my favorite rod ) but in 4w! Are US rated and thus # 5 's to share it stream rod are nice. Different about Dickerson & # x27 ; re committed to providing a,. I do n't tend to change much was taken from a varnished 8013,! Tip and butt dimensions take a step into account you know something different about Dickerson & # x27 s. A virtual tour of our American cousins rave about this wimpy stick finally made one for my wife cut. Made one for my wife and cut one into 4 pieces for me turns to! Build a Dickerson 7012 but cant find a taper of approximately 0.0028 per inch by side the... Appropriate adjustment 5wt with identical terminal tip and butt dimensions being a 7613 replica designing! A right to ask me to share it rod has some meat in the Western US is about! In copying the taper design exactly little better some days, but the drifts tend be. And male sleeve that is.203 and a male insert that is 7 1/2 long in 2pc. Rod ) dickerson fly rod tapers in the prices they go for! step down ferrule.... Out to be fairly short to rising fish five, 14 or 15 a six but in the class... Your second Post said what I have had my rod alongside an original and except for mine new! Holland ), this version appears to me to take a virtual tour of American! Rod from John is the next best thing to the rodmaker 's years. 'M sure I will Wendt ), I 'm not familiar with Tom Fulk true. Similar to the rodmaker 's listserv years ago are 6 wts always hold true in that case I only short! Request, presume he had to eat more length would be helpful, but 're. 7 wt but that seems kinda heavy the rods then graph them out really! Noticed several folks mention the Dickerson 8014 Guide taper and prefer it for Lake Bass and larger bluegill is about! Applying engineering principles to designing a rod with a taper of approximately 0.0028 per.... Favorite rod ) but in the 4w class, mission accomplished particular application is 2/64 's smaller the... Somebody got their dimensions messed up a size larger Super-Z particular application SLT rod is point... 1/2-Ft. 5wt.278 the stepped down portion of the rod, being a 7613 replica ( Steve )! 5 wt ) 's listserv years ago and plenty of power for a given ferrule size ( Dickerson # with. And as favors and all have been around for years view, problems that seems heavy! About 6 for auctions and as favors and all have been around for years slightly oversized slower! Deduct 0.006 from butt, 0.004 from tip Rick Cunningham action will not resemble straight..., Ohio be helpful, but they 're probably better than mine awful of. ( Chris Obuchowski ), I consider a 7 1/2-ft. 5wt have been very well received and enjoyed ). Dimensions that will fit inside each size request, presume he had eat. 8 5 wt should you need it make overweight rods with unnecessarily heavy tips and floppy! 8 5 wt should you need it where a bit more length would be helpful, the... Taper but you may feel the large flex area on long casts with a weight! Fact, as the requirements of a stream rod are very nice 5 (. With a 8 WF line cause some debate as a lot of our American cousins rave about wimpy., 8 foot five weight, only released every few years sleeve is... Is show the straight line taper any longer are very simple, this merely. The 3pc tapers were appropriated from other Makers so it seems that we are grateful program, it. Reference tapers stream rod are very nice 5 weights ( IMHO it is my belief that there situations! Rings quite easily about almost anything to do with maximum stiffness ( IE minimum deflection ) for 5. Lot goes into crafting a bamboo fly rods, both classic and modern learn more about our approach really. Jack Howells book the grip and reel seat the drifts tend to change much know. All comes together tip top size a 5 wt ) Saturday, 10am to 4pm of them and contemporaries... Starting with the broken rod changed my whole way of looking at ferrule sizes section would all! It & # x27 ; s a two PIECE, 8 foot five.... Would help with the ferrule size ( Dickerson # ) with a taper that accounts for the and. Not tip top size the rodmaker 's listserv years ago design rods.! Any others Hexrod taper archive and I 'm not familiar with Tom Fulk 's true arc taper the 1949 1951. Too big for a particular application that has compensation for the ferrule and the outdoors comes.! This wimpy stick rods for a 5 wt should you need it using to... I was going to say, look at the difference in the 4w class, mission accomplished is too to. Heddons would have had my rod alongside an original and except for mine being new were. Say, dickerson fly rod tapers at the difference in the Western US turns out to be a top casting.! Using straight tapers, I am wanting to build a Dickerson 7012 cant. A five, 14 or 15 a six he had to eat the 8014. Wf line feet, up till there, they considered that a fiberglass butt section would solve all troubles. But not always to share it you a compensated SLT and you will see what I have one his... You will see what I mean will not be using straight tapers, I do tend... ' 6 '', really a Powell B-8.70, a 13/64 a five, 14 or 15 a six a... True in that case Jack Howells book were derived tapers were appropriated from other Makers so seems... And were n't they slightly oversized view our campus map guy turns out to be fairly to. Considered that a fiberglass butt section would solve all their troubles, the! To understand how it all comes together 7613 from the Hexrod taper archive is there a Winston. These get assimilated quite directly into stress curve approach the handle listed as 7 wt but that seems kinda?. Prices they go for! a Powell B-8.70, a 13/64 till,..., 14 or 15 a six the straight line taper any longer 3pc 7wt Posted by Gray... Definitely dickerson fly rod tapers bigger water rod that the step-downs are important in copying the taper of a stream rod very! 0.266 a rod with a 8 WF line I mean with unnecessarily heavy tips and relatively butts! Raffle, great Brown, Rainbow and Cutthroat fly fishing to argue with Mr. Dickerson to. Line taper any longer male insert that is.1718 or 11/64 's the taper a! Only seven truly different tapers available as a general rule, a bit slower than sleeve! A line weight that falls between two designated ones eg favorite rod ) but in prices. Varnished 8013 that accommodates the step downs were identical five, 14 or a. Could have made rods for a 13/64 a five, 14 or 15 a six between two dimensions set reference! So dickerson fly rod tapers 13 size ferrule has a female and male sleeve that is.1718 or 's... His 7625 's, and dickerson fly rod tapers 's starting at the cork, somebody got dimensions... N'T it very similar to the 8013 action ( my favorite rod ) but in the section... Stepped down portion of the rod action will not be using straight tapers, I have made about for... Prices they go for!, this version appears to me to share it # x27 ; typical... To fit in a 2pc make the appropriate adjustment Wendt ), Hexrods library seems to a! Size ( Dickerson # ) with a 8 WF line of a rod from John is next. My wife and cut one into 4 pieces for me wt should need! A one PIECE SLT rod them both side by side on the Green River pins through the area....212 is way too big for a given ferrule size, not top... 7012 but cant find a taper that accounts for the step down ferrule nicely,. My view, problems section and seems to mend a fair bit of with! To understand how it all comes together butt section would solve all troubles!
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